Repúblika Banana

Here is a guy who never spent a day in the jungle to fight the Indonesian army, who never dodged a bullet in the jungle during the Indonesian occupation but is demanding that those who gave their lives defending Timor-Leste's aspirations for independence be dismissed and be posted somewhere but the head of Timor-Leste's military... Come on. Get real!

"If the veterans remain in the Army, there will be more problems"

Interview with Gastão Salsinha, by Adelino Gomes

Público, 8th of June 2006

He receives us in the area of Gleno, in a house outside the main roads where we arrive taken by a contact that waited for us, with a mobile phone in his hand, in a junction after the bridge. Ten minutes later we see a group of men, all apparently under their 30s, around a small wall that surrounds a big tree. Blue plastic chairs were already in a semi-circle for the interview, in the house's courtyard. Brief answers, part in Tetum, part in Portuguese, that he understands but in which he cannot express himself clearly. Gastão Salsinha, 32, married, with four children, FDTL lieutenant, spokesman of 594 military (of a total of around 1400) that complain of ethnical discrimination. Interview given 72 hours before a meeting with Defence Minister José Ramos-Horta that will precede a wider dialogue between military, politicians, the Catholic Church and the civil society in order to solve the crisis.

Público: You are the only [of the military involved in this conflict] that has not yet meet with the Defence Minister. When will you do it?

Gastão Salsinha: Next Saturday.

P: What is the relation between you, with your men, and the other groups related to majors Reinaldo, Tara and Tilman?

GS: We, the petitioners, do dot talk about the political part. The case of Major Alfredo has to do with the FDTL shootings on the protesters, on the 28th of April. If that had not happened, he and the other majors would not have joined the petitioners. But we will try to find one single solution.

P: And what [solution] should that be?

GS: A total restructuring of the FDTL. If the veterans remain there will be more problems. We still respect them. It was with them that we achieved independence. But they do not accept any idea coming from us.

P: Would it not be preferable to join the veteran's experience with the youth of the youngsters?

GS: The only thing we learn from the veteran is how to cut a palm's trunk or the best spot to dig a fruit in the bush. The minister Ramos-Horta has already promised to find solutions for the veterans. The army should continue to exist but with two units: one of engineering to develop civic actions; the other for peace missions. That way there will be no misunderstandings.

P: How will the recruitment be done, in order to avoid discriminations Lorosae/Loromonu?

GS: The initial problem has to be solved first. Then we shall see on how to reunite again.

P: But should not the main criteria be the candidate's capacity?

GS: Not only, also a profile that guarantees national unity.

P: And what about the future of the current command - brigadier Taur, and colonels Lere and Falur?

GS: They cannot lead the FDTL anymore. The government should [find them a] post according to their own capacities.

P: In the last month the Estate has fallen apart. Did you ever think you might lose sovereignty?

GS: After the brigadier [Taur Matan Ruak] answered to our petition and decided to expel us I answered that if the government did not solve the problem, one day there would be worse things than that. It is very sad, because they thought we were little and not intelligent.

P: Some people accuse some petitioners of lack of discipline and of having used the argument of discrimination as a pretext.

GS: I think it is not fair. We have concrete proofs of the discrimination. Actions of this sort first appeared when we were still in Aileu (around 2000). Many - among whom major Tara - can testify that. We were meanwhile expelled but there is no legal base for that.

P: Are you optimistic about the resolution of the problem?

GS: I am. I am sure it can be solved. But I think that only through the President of the Republic.

P: Do you also defend that the PM should be dismissed?

GS: It would be better if he is dismissed so that someone could, on his behalf, solve the problem.

P: how much time do you give Xanana to do that?

GS: It is in the emergency measures: 30 days.

P: Have you already had contacts with the Commission of Notables [nominated by the President to solve the petitioners' problem]? What results?

GS: We met with their spokesman, Father António. I have done [written] a letter with six proposals. They took it but I remain with no answer until today.

P: Is this crisis on the verge to have a solution?

GS: The only problem is the guns. There are armed civilians that are retreat to the mountains.

P: Armed by whom?

GS: By Fretilin's central committee. We have indications that arms were distributed to civilians.

P: You have stop receiving your wages as military. How do you survive?

GS: The people help us.

P: Some people say East Timor became a failed State. With all these groups, the war Lorosae/Loromonu, etc, is it still possible to find a solution?

GS: The example of Iraq, where the situation is even harder, shows that there are solutions. But we have been giving up. Anything that President Xanana and José-Ramos-Horta will say, this people, from Manatuto to Oecussi, will obey. But I doubt in what concerns the Lorosae part.

P: So there is a Lorosae/Loromonu problem in East Timor. In what does it consist?

GS: It is a God's punishment.

P: Can you be a bit more precise? Where is it today, in East Timor, that difference between ones and the others?

GS: I ask what did the leaders do since independence. I ask why is the people still suffering.

P: They have already started put away revenues from the oil.

GS: It is true we have richness but the reality is that from Tutuala to Oecussi, the people are still suffering and who is savouring the richness is the leadership. We already have five years of government. The roads that had holes still have holes. The burned houses remain burned. The government has not done anything new. This government's main concern is to buy weapons to distribute among their [Fretilin] militants.

P: There are often praises to the government's management by the World Bank. Independent Timor has been portrayed internationally as a success case.

GS: These are analysis done in Dili only. The life in the interior does not match with that.

P: We insist in the Lorosae/Loromonu issue. Is there two Timor?

GS: Timor is only one. Once solved the discrimination case [against the Loromonu military], the problem is over.